People who are getting married before 25

Ozpunker · Senior Member

RE: People who are getting married before 25

Jason · Only in cartoons

Marriage is not a death sentence. You do not stop living when you are married. In fact, it offers life experiences that are unknown to single living, such as the joys of raising children.

Ozpunker · Senior Member

You have to be married to have children?
Who are you? The Church?

Jason · Only in cartoons

I think it's widely accepted that co-habitating and nurturing parents are best for the development of healthy and well-adjusted children. Although you don't have to be married to co-habitate and have children, marriage offers certain legal benefits that can be helpful.

If you're going to have children, you should be in a committed and stable relationship that will last at least the duration of the child-rearing (starting at the birth of the first child and ending when the last child is 18-22 years old). Sure, you don't HAVE to get married to do this, but I'm a bit confused about why you would be opposed to marriage in this situation, apart from a general fear of commitment or an irrationally stigmal conception of marriage.

Pizza · Sheriff of Paddy's

Ozpunker wrote:

You have to be married to have children?
Who are you? The Church?

Yeah, did you write "Under the Milky Way"? I DON'T THINK SO JASON, SO STOP CLAIMING THAT YOU DID.

Andy001 · Spaghetti

Jason wrote:

If you're going to have children, you should be in a committed and stable relationship that will last at least the duration of the child-rearing (starting at the birth of the first child and ending when the last child is 18-22 years old). Sure, you don't HAVE to get married to do this, but I'm a bit confused about why you would be opposed to marriage in this situation, apart from a general fear of commitment or an irrationally stigmal conception of marriage.

I would prefer to think of it as not feeling as if you need the state to give some kind of official stamp of approval to your relationship. If you and your partner truly care for and are committed to each other and to your children, that should be all that matters. What can a ceremony and a piece of paper add to that, other than to give it some needless air of social normality and institutional approval?
For some people, declining to marry can also be about refusing to appear to approve of religious institutions - certainly, it's of course possible to have a secular marriage, in fact here at least that is pretty much the norm now, but the historical tradition of marriage is strongly linked with religion, and people may not wish to associate themselves with this.
Obviously, there are currently some financial advantages to marriage (though in principle I'm not certain that this is something that ought to continue) and a rational person therefore needs to factor these into their decisions alongside beliefs that some may see as overly idealistic. But ultimately, if you are already comfortably off and secure, then I see no real advantages to getting married.
Without wanting to make a personal dig, it seems that you are quite defensive on this topic, perhaps as you've discussed you and Cheese's future plans to marry before on here. Which is cool, it seems to be what you both want, but equally you ought to respect the decisions of those who choose not to marry.

Andy001 · Spaghetti

I think I phrased some of that a bit pretensiously. But the point stands.

Jason · Only in cartoons

There are perhaps a few people in this world who feel less of a need for the government or a religion to condone my relationship. What can a ceremony and a piece of paper add to it? Legal rights. Like or not, the state owns us all, and if cheese ever gets horribly ill I would like to have visiting rights. If you'll note, I haven't made a single claim concerning any intrinsic value that marriage has. If it weren't for the current state of affairs of state-licensed marriage, then this would not be an issue. There shouldn't be, but there are very tangible benefits to having one's relationship sanctioned by state authorities. I would love to have these institutions torn down and replaced by common contacts and informal understandings. However, that is not a world we live in.

Ozpunker · Senior Member

Andy001 wrote:

Jason wrote:

If you're going to have children, you should be in a committed and stable relationship that will last at least the duration of the child-rearing (starting at the birth of the first child and ending when the last child is 18-22 years old). Sure, you don't HAVE to get married to do this, but I'm a bit confused about why you would be opposed to marriage in this situation, apart from a general fear of commitment or an irrationally stigmal conception of marriage.

I would prefer to think of it as not feeling as if you need the state to give some kind of official stamp of approval to your relationship. If you and your partner truly care for and are committed to each other and to your children, that should be all that matters. What can a ceremony and a piece of paper add to that, other than to give it some needless air of social normality and institutional approval?
For some people, declining to marry can also be about refusing to appear to approve of religious institutions - certainly, it's of course possible to have a secular marriage, in fact here at least that is pretty much the norm now, but the historical tradition of marriage is strongly linked with religion, and people may not wish to associate themselves with this.
Obviously, there are currently some financial advantages to marriage (though in principle I'm not certain that this is something that ought to continue) and a rational person therefore needs to factor these into their decisions alongside beliefs that some may see as overly idealistic. But ultimately, if you are already comfortably off and secure, then I see no real advantages to getting married.
Without wanting to make a personal dig, it seems that you are quite defensive on this topic, perhaps as you've discussed you and Cheese's future plans to marry before on here. Which is cool, it seems to be what you both want, but equally you ought to respect the decisions of those who choose not to marry.

3 out the last 4 wedding I have been to were conducted by a marriage celebrant. The only hint of religion at 2 of those is that we said grace before our meal at the reception.
I was somewhat surprised at one mate's wedding that there was not one word of god or anything religious despite the fact that he was raised in a Catholic household and used to go to church every Sunday.

The one wedding I did attend that was religious (my girlfriend's cousin, who I didn't know) was in a church conducted by an Anglican priest (even though they weren't religious). The whole ceremony was just... "Let God keep them together.... Let god make them have a million babies..." I find that if you aren't overly religious, that it takes away from the meaning of the marriage.

I also have another friend who went to a party of a chick (And I use that term loosely) who he went to school with and hadn't seen in a few years.. He fucked her without protection and knocked her up. She doesn't believe in abortion which is fair enough I guess but gave him the opportunity to have nothing to do with the kid. He decided to not just stay around for the child's sake but to stay with her and her daughter from a previous relationship. They have since decided to get married and he has even formally addopted the daughter. She has turned out to be psychopathic whore who is mega controlling and has driven away most of his other friends. It wouldn't surprise me if she hits him. He now drinks alot and has to work extra hard because she's too lazy to get a job.
I forget where I was going with that... something to do with people don't necessarily get married because they love each other but because "it's the right thing to do"

Someone once told me that I had commitent issues because I didn't have a girlfriend... I think that marrying someone for the wrong reasons show worse commitment issues.

Jason · Only in cartoons

People getting married for the wrong reasons does not negate the meaning of people getting married for the right reasons. Are you saying that people genuinely in love and eager to have children should not get married simply because others, not in love and unwillingly having children, have been unhappily married?

I'm not saying if you have a kid you have to get married. What I am saying is that it is best for the children to be in a nurturing, loving household, and that this is best done by more than one person who have an unconditional interest in the child's well-being. I'm not even saying it has to be a man and a woman, but it needs to be at least two people who love the **** out of that kid and have the time to show it. I'm pretty sure staying together with a crazy, abusive, psychopathic bitch, and developing alcoholism to boot, is not what's best for that kid.

It should also be noted that having children is not a necessary component of being married, and it is perfectly reasonable to get married with no intention of having children. The benefits of marriage still apply to childless partners.

Awkward Smile · Inconsiderate Hardcore Lesbian

I wanna get married in Hawaii, just me and the groom.

Jason · Only in cartoons

That'd be pretty sweet. Start saving now; it's the most expensive vacation spot in the United States.

Awkward Smile · Inconsiderate Hardcore Lesbian

My sister stayed at hotel there for $70 a night.
It's motel status.. but I don't care. I would much rather spend my day out.

Jason · Only in cartoons

Good point. I think it also depends on the island on which you're lodging. I hear good things about Big Island.

Awkward Smile · Inconsiderate Hardcore Lesbian

It could've been Oahu, but I'm not sure.

Jason · Only in cartoons

Well enjoy your kickass tropical eloping, anyway.

Awkward Smile · Inconsiderate Hardcore Lesbian

Pizza said he would come here and elope with me, but he lies.

Jason · Only in cartoons

Yeah, what's stopping him anyway?

Awkward Smile · Inconsiderate Hardcore Lesbian

Total heartbreaker.

cheeselover · I NEED BABIES!!!

Andy001 wrote:

Jason wrote:

If you're going to have children, you should be in a committed and stable relationship that will last at least the duration of the child-rearing (starting at the birth of the first child and ending when the last child is 18-22 years old). Sure, you don't HAVE to get married to do this, but I'm a bit confused about why you would be opposed to marriage in this situation, apart from a general fear of commitment or an irrationally stigmal conception of marriage.

I would prefer to think of it as not feeling as if you need the state to give some kind of official stamp of approval to your relationship. If you and your partner truly care for and are committed to each other and to your children, that should be all that matters. What can a ceremony and a piece of paper add to that, other than to give it some needless air of social normality and institutional approval?
For some people, declining to marry can also be about refusing to appear to approve of religious institutions - certainly, it's of course possible to have a secular marriage, in fact here at least that is pretty much the norm now, but the historical tradition of marriage is strongly linked with religion, and people may not wish to associate themselves with this.
Obviously, there are currently some financial advantages to marriage (though in principle I'm not certain that this is something that ought to continue) and a rational person therefore needs to factor these into their decisions alongside beliefs that some may see as overly idealistic. But ultimately, if you are already comfortably off and secure, then I see no real advantages to getting married.
Without wanting to make a personal dig, it seems that you are quite defensive on this topic, perhaps as you've discussed you and Cheese's future plans to marry before on here. Which is cool, it seems to be what you both want, but equally you ought to respect the decisions of those who choose not to marry.

I definitely respect people who decide not to get married (and Jason does too). We wouldn't either except for the legal benefits already discussed. I think that marriage is much more of a state of the relationship than a decree. I worry about people who think that their relationship will dramatically change after a ceremony and piece of paper. I have no such illusions. I do think it'll be cool to have the same last name and a party though.