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Post Info TOPIC: No one has mentioned the $700 billion "bail-out" yet?


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No one has mentioned the $700 billion "bail-out" yet?


I would have expected better from this board.   Now, I haven't had too much time to read about it, but from what I have heard, it seems like one of the greatest misappropriations of wealth that I have ever heard of, in terms of magnitude of value being used and its poorly thought out plan.

Does anyone actually think this is a good idea?

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It's too goddamn depressing to bring up, but I haven't heard much positive feedback. SOme say it hasn't done enough, and we call these people insane. Some people want to add or drop legislation from it.

And one or two actually don't support it because it's psychotic.

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Zinc Saucier

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I've honestly been unable to wrap my head around it. Primarily because I don't know much about finance.

Still, it seems insane.

I do know, however, that it's more money than we've sunk into the Iraq war.

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Senator Jim DeMint put out a press release, and I'm happy to see at least one senator has his wits about him to some extent with this case.

"After reviewing the Administration's proposed bailout plan, I believe it is completely unacceptable. This plan does nothing to address the misguided government policies that created this mess and it could make matters much worse by socializing an entire sector of the U.S. economy. This plan fails to oversee or regulate the government failures that led to this crisis. Instead it greatly increases the role for Secretary Paulson whose market predictions have been consistently wrong in the last year, and provides corporate welfare for investment firms on Wall Street that don't want to disclose their assets and sell them to private investors for market rates. Most Americans are paying their bills on time and investing responsibly and should not be forced to pay for the reckless actions of some on Wall Street, especially when no one can guarantee this will solve our current problems."

"This plan will not only cause our nation to fall off the debt cliff, it could send the value of the dollar into a free-fall as investors around the world question our ability to repay our debts. It's also very likely that this plan will extend the cycle of bailouts, encouraging other companies to behave in reckless ways that create the need for even more bailouts, triggering an endless run on our treasury. This plan may make things look better for Wall Street in the next couple months, but the long-term consequences to our economy could be disastrous.

"There are much better ways of dealing with this problem than forcing American taxpayers to pay for every asset some investor doesn't want anymore. We should start by reforming government policies and programs that created this mess, including the Federal Reserve's easy money policy, the congressional charters of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, and the Community Reinvestment Act. Then Congress should pass a number of permanent and proven pro-growth reforms to encourage capital formation and boost asset values. We need to make permanent reductions in the corporate tax and the capital gains tax rates. We have the second highest corporate tax rate in the world, which encourages companies to take jobs and investment overseas."

"It's a sad fact, but Americans can no longer trust the economic information they are getting from this Administration. The Administration said the bailout of Bear Stearns would stop the bleeding and solve the problem, but they were wrong. They said $150 billion in new government spending using rebate checks would solve the problem, but they were wrong again. They said new authority to bailout Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac would solve the problem without being used, but they were wrong again. Now they want us to trust them to spend nearly a trillion dollars on more government bailouts. It's completely irresponsible and I cannot support it."


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I'm fat and nobody likes me

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From my understanding, the biggest problem here is the Community Reinvestment Act which compelled banks to give to people who they knew would have trouble coming through on their loan agreements. Banks that did not participate in this could be accused of redlining, and then would be subject to FURTHER government regulation and would have it's activities, such as merging, restricted.

They twisted the arms of the banks to go against basically everything the business teaches.

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Very insane ...

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Gotta love that Republican administration.

GO SMALLER GOVERNMENT.

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I BLAME THE DEMOCRATS

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DAMN DEMOCRATS. THEY DESTROYED THE GOVERNMENT WITH THE YEAR AND A HALF THEY HAD POWER OF A SINGLE BRANCH OF GOVERNMENT.

THOSE DICKS.

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World's Strongest Millionaire

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At my bank we have one account labeled as "Community reinvestment" it isn't doing great, but still better than lots of other loans. I can't say I've researched it heavily, but from my first hand experience, banks that have done many community reinvestment loans were itching to do them before this act.

Not that this takes blame away from those who helped pass this act. It was obviously a stupid way to make a quick buck and trump the economy in the short run with complete disregard to the long term consequences. Jim DeMint is 100% correct, the tax payer should not be taking the hit for this. Richard Shelby (senator from Alabama) also has the right idea, reform is needed not government intervention. Bailing them out and then leaving them in charge of cleaning up their own mess is not a good idea. It will just encourage more criminal activity and carelessness.

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WOW IT ONLY TOOK THEM A YEAR AND A HALF? LOL @ DIRTY DEMOCRATS

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Another good press release, and this time by the President and CEO of BB&T.

1. Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae are the primary cause of the mortgage crisis. These government supported enterprises distorted normal market risk mechanisms. While individual private financial institutions have made serious mistakes, the problems in the financial system have been caused by government policies including, affordable housing (now sub-prime), combined with the market disruptions caused by the Federal Reserve holding interest rates too low and then raising interest rates too high.
2. There is no panic on Main Street and in sound financial institutions. The problems are in high-risk financial institutions and on Wall Street.
3. While all financial intermediaries are being impacted by liquidity issues, this is primarily a bailout of poorly run financial institutions. It is extremely important that the bailout not damage well run companies.
4. Corrections are not all bad. The market correction process eliminates irrational competitors. There were a number of poorly managed institutions and poorly made financial decisions during the real estate boom. It is important that any rules post rescue punish the poorly run institutions and not punish the well run companies.
5. A significant and immediate tax credit for purchasing homes would be a far less expensive and more effective cure for the mortgage market and financial system than the proposed rescue plan.
6. This is a housing value crisis. It does not make economic sense to purchase credit card loans, automobile loans, etc. The government should directly purchase housing assets, not real estate bonds. This would include lots and houses under construction.
7. The guaranty of money funds by the U.S. Treasury creates enormous risk for the banking industry. Banks have been paying into the FDIC insurance fund since 1933. The fund has a limit of $100,000 per client. An arbitrary, out of the blue guarantee of money funds creates risk for the taxpayers and significantly distorts financial markets.
8. Protecting the banking system, which is fundamentally controlled by the Federal Reserve, is an established government function. It is completely unclear why the government needs to or should bailout insurance companies, investment banks, hedge funds and foreign companies.
9. It is extremely unclear how the government will price the problem real estate assets. Priced too low, the real estate markets will be worse off than if the bail out did not exist. Priced too high, the taxpayers will take huge losses. Without a market price, how can you rationally determine value?
10. The proposed bankruptcy cram down will severely negatively impact mortgage markets and will damage well run institutions. This will provide an incentive for homeowners who are able to pay their mortgages, but have a loss in their house, to take bankruptcy and force losses on banks. (Banks would not have received the gains had the houses appreciated.) This will substantially increase the risk in mortgage lending and make mortgage pricing much higher in the future.
11. Fair Value accounting should be changed immediately. It does not work when there are no market prices. If we had Fair Value accounting, as interpreted today, in the early 1990s the United States financial system would have crashed. Accounting should not drive economic activity, it should reflect it.
12. The proposed new merger accounting rules should be deferred for at least five years. The new merger accounting rules are creating uncertainty for high quality companies who might potentially purchase weaker companies.
13. The primary beneficiaries of the proposed rescue are Goldman Sachs and Morgan Stanley. The Treasury has a number of smart individuals, including Hank Paulson. However, Treasury is totally dominated by Wall Street investment bankers. They do not have knowledge of the commercial banking industry. Therefore, they can not be relied on to objectively assess all the implications of government policy on all financial intermediaries. The decision to protect the money funds is a clear example of a material lack of insight into the risk to the total financial system.
14. Arbitrary limits on executive compensation will be self defeating. With these limits, only the failing financial institutions will participate in the rescue, effectively making this plan a massive subsidy for incompetence. Also, how will companies attract the leadership talent to manage their business effectively with irrational compensation limits?

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If companies cannot fail because they are deemed "too important", we have removed the most important mechanism that makes free markets work. The Republicans seem to want good business practices to be rewarded, and bad practices to be forgiven, if not rewarded. This completely wrecks incentives.

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The government just can't understand that not having enough money to buy something should keep you from buying things.

On the flip side this could be seen as not a bailout of big business , but a bailout of our nation. Banks not lending money could lead to really bad economic damage, such was the case of the great depression. When banks don't lend the american people have a difficult time spending. Freeing up this much money would mean that banks could continue lending, but if they continue to do so in a such a reckless manner then we'll be in the exact same position with 700 billion missing from our wallets.

-- Edited by MorisUkunRasik at 23:27, 2008-09-27

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I'm a Republican and I am against this bailout

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As well you should be.

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