Political Participation

DEATHPIGGIE · I'm fat and nobody likes me

RE: Political Participation

Jason · Only in cartoons

Really? I thought Objectivism sanctioned the toppling of unjust regimes at the discretion of the just. Correct me if I'm wrong.

-- Edited by Jason at 04:03, 2008-08-30

Jason · Only in cartoons

DEATHPIGGIE wrote:

Sure, you can argue we've decliend in a lot of ways, but we've come forward as well, especially in the social department.

I actually love American society. I love our character, I love our cuisine, I love our art, I love our literature. I do think that every positive change in America was not a result of government action, except, perhaps, the decline of racism in the South.

That actually causes some problems in my libertarian beliefs. I believe, on principle, that people have the right to be racist bastards. On the other hand, I recognize that it helped the South recover from the racist plague when the government brought in the national guard and physically forced integration in the South. Painful, sure, but it was eventually effective. There's still racism here, but nothing like it used to be. I actually think the North is more racist now since the South is so afraid of being construed that way.

DEATHPIGGIE · I'm fat and nobody likes me

Jason wrote:

Really? I thought Objectivism sanctioned the toppling of unjust regimes at the discretion of the just. Correct me if I'm wrong.

-- Edited by Jason at 04:03, 2008-08-30

Objectivism does not. Nothing Rand wrote ever suggested that, as far as I know. Many in the Objectivist movement believe we have a right to invade any country that behaves extremely unjustly to it's citizens, but certainly not an obligation.

I'd saay it's far too questionable of a practice to just invade any country we feel is being oppressed at anytime with no real tact. I find it hard to justify it if they have not threatened our lives, or actually killed American citizens and soldiers.

Basically, it's an issue of practicality and that I don't want anyone to die in those countries because of America's actions.

I once suggested to my friend that from now on, any country that we see has well established an immoral government, we bomb wherever the heads of government are immediately. After a good 4 or 5 runs of doing this, no one is going to try to rule a nation by brute force any longer.

Jason · Only in cartoons

DEATHPIGGIE wrote:

I once suggested to my friend that from now on, any country that we see has well established an immoral government, we bomb wherever the heads of government are immediately. After a good 4 or 5 runs of doing this, no one is going to try to rule a nation by brute force any longer.

Wouldn't you, then, be enforcing your morality by brute force?

DEATHPIGGIE · I'm fat and nobody likes me

Jason wrote:

DEATHPIGGIE wrote:

Sure, you can argue we've decliend in a lot of ways, but we've come forward as well, especially in the social department.

I actually love American society. I love our character, I love our cuisine, I love our art, I love our literature. I do think that every positive change in America was not a result of government action, except, perhaps, the decline of racism in the South.
That actually causes some problems in my libertarian beliefs. I believe, on principle, that people have the right to be racist bastards. On the other hand, I recognize that it helped the South recover from the racist plague when the government brought in the national guard and physically forced integration in the South. Painful, sure, but it was eventually effective. There's still racism here, but nothing like it used to be. I actually think the North is more racist now since the South is so afraid of being construed that way.

It's hip racism up here. We hate Mexicans, but we do it eloquently.

Anyway, the whole integration thing should've only applied to public school. As far as I know they also forced private places to treat blacks a certain way, to give them the same drinking fountain as white people, etc.

Of course I find the racism of those people to be some of the sickest **** any person can believe, but I also think it's their right to deny service to anyone they please.

DEATHPIGGIE · I'm fat and nobody likes me

Jason wrote:

DEATHPIGGIE wrote:

I once suggested to my friend that from now on, any country that we see has well established an immoral government, we bomb wherever the heads of government are immediately. After a good 4 or 5 runs of doing this, no one is going to try to rule a nation by brute force any longer.

Wouldn't you, then, be enforcing your morality by brute force?

I would be responding as a kind of " world police ". I don't think that's such a bad concept. I'm not allowing them to treat their people like cattle, so just like a local policeman responds to aggression, I am responding to government aggression against the people of whatever country it is.

Jason · Only in cartoons

Yeah, you're right, but it wasn't the drinking fountains-- they were public. The sit-ins were at private restaurants who would refuse to serve black customers.

On the one hand, I am sickened to the fullest extent by racism, but on the other hand, I believe in absolute property rights. So, I actually disagree politically with the Civil Rights Act of 1964 which required restaurants and other private establishments to not discriminate in their services, even though I would personally agree with it.

DEATHPIGGIE · I'm fat and nobody likes me

Yes. I try to refrain from just saying " Screw the civil rights act " in front of people.

Jason · Only in cartoons

DEATHPIGGIE wrote:

I would be responding as a kind of " world police ". I don't think that's such a bad concept. I'm not allowing them to treat their people like cattle, so just like a local policeman responds to aggression, I am responding to government aggression against the people of whatever country it is.

What justifies your ideal political system in the first place? Is it a social contract like the Constitution? Or do you appeal to some higher authority (not God of course, but Reason, perhaps)?

What I'm getting at is, if you justify democracy from a social contract, then how would you justify a world police force when there is clearly no such contract? And, if you appeal to Reason or some higher authority, then how do you justify the moral discrepancies in democracy, like a publicly-supported populist government, as discussed earlier?

-- Edited by Jason at 04:26, 2008-08-30

cheeselover · I NEED BABIES!!!

blah blah blah blah.

didn't rtead this.