It was once, Awkward.

The only important difference in the analogy is that intellectual property is a matter that arguably has legal recourse. As defined by law, there are certain damages that can be exacted from offenders.

However, the matter of masturbating to someone's image is a strictly moral affair, of the form "What is good for S," where S is the subject of moral choice -- in this case, PIGGIE. The non-initiation of force, although a beautifully clean-cut basis for social morality, does not tell us what the good is for man. It only sets up restrictions that allow for the productiveness of human societies (which is quite important).

Usually on this board when I've used the word "moral" or "morality" or "ethics" I've been speaking of this other side of ethics, in the realm of relations between people and in moral rightness and wrongness, in moral permissibility and impermissibility. So, the confusion is expected. I apologize now for not having clarified this earlier.

What I mean when I say one should not masturbate to someone's image (unless permission has been offered in some form), that it is immoral, I mean "moral" in this other Aristotelian sense. I would not say that masturbating to the image of x, where x is a human being who has not given permission, is morally impermissible. I would say that it is wrong. I would say that one should not do so. I would say that such behavior is undesirable. I would say that it is disrespectful, and I would say that for the sake of one's own integrity, one should not masturbate to the image of x until permission is secured. I've given my reasons for this, that it is in an abstract sense "stealing" another person's sexuality without earning it, without first producing the value that would secure it. This is not a consequentialist ethical claim; it has everything to do with one's private motivations and what motivations one should have.

PIGGIE, I would not expect that you would care about this subtle matter of integrity. I don't think you have respect for nearly anyone on this planet, and certainly don't mind disrespecting the ones you maybe do. However, I would still affirm that this is self-destructive behavior, that it is undesirable, that it is in some sense bad for you.

This is all I have to say on the matter. If it is brought up again, I will not respond to it. I'm going to bed.

Back to the original topic, today in class there were some kids talking about what a great job Palin did, and how they were so excited to get to vote for McCain ( It was said in a kind of jovial but still serious manner ). I was surprised, cause it was at least 3 or 4 kids. For once in a college classroom I found myself on the opposite end of the debate, being portrayed as the " Liberal ", which they accused me of even though I explained that McCain was no free marketeer.

Apparently she thinks the US Military is like The Blues Brothers, but with M-16's.

Conservative ( Read: Christian Right )